Date help on black dress.....

emmapeelpants

emmapeelpants

Alumni
I'm not sure if I've done something wrong over at the VC&A, I'm hoping someone can clarify a date for me on this dress. It seems to be a mix of different eras for me. 50s style shelf bust, 60s style 'dolly' look and 70s style pleated chiffon. I'm guessing it's either 60s or 70s, and was hoping for a few ideas. Thanks so much!!

<img src="http://members.sparedollar.com/talentedamateur/blackchiffon.jpg">

<img src="http://members.sparedollar.com/talentedamateur/P1070016-light.jpg">
 
I think there's not a lot of regulars' regular-posting going on there at the moment for some reason...

Here's what I thought might be a comparison (not in style, but in detail):

dressbywendy.jpg


It's a 'Dress by Wendy' that I thought might be early 70s or a cusper. Long straight maxi though, so without the hybrid features of yours.

I swear there was some kind of wierd goth-hippy vibe happening c.1968-1972...

L
 
Baffled by the bodice structure - but I've got a kind of lacey mini-shelf bust (more like an exaggerated bib) on a late 60s (I think) Little Black (cocktail) Dress. So perhaps it was a feature still in use?
 
I've just replied over there too! Hopefully it is just a lack of regulars over there, I just get alarmed when I see the tumbleweed blowing across my post - lol!

I think you're probably right, it's probably so 'timeless' that it doesn't matter - but I have an irrational fear of getting my category wrong! I think eBayUK should adopt the same category structures for vintage as the US site. Styles do not begin and end at the beginning and end of a decade!!!
 
Lol on 'tumbleweed'. I think this one probably just stumped everyone.

You're right about the categories needing a change. But style-perception is so decade-led in UK vintage I think.

Come to think of it, despite the great categorization in the US structure, I still get the impression from VCA posts that people by far prefer to stick a straight decade on their dress (say, '50s' for things that might well be early 60s or even late 40s), simply because the public still think in decades, and not evolutionary fashion epochs. But it does make it easier to list!
 
There was a spread in Elle Girl about the "Girlie Goth" style...Black mascara/nails on the young girls with black "dolly" look dresses....ruffles, babydolls, illusion elements, shorter dresses vs the floor length Morticia Addams look......sometimes with tulle. It seems to be paired with pastels on occassion...like with a pink slip or pink tulle showing underneath.....This dress could definitely "do" that look as well as shown straightforward and more sophisticated.
 
Oh yeah! you're right!
Put a lacey contrast crinoline underneath and call it 'Elegant Gothic Lolita' and you've got a hit!

The Japanese designer Mana is the fount of all things EGL, but you get the best idea from the fashion spreads in the 'Gothic and Lolita Bible' which is the origin of the girly goth thing that Elle caught on to.

There are scans of those here:
http://www.blue-period.fsnet.co.uk/egl.html

EGLs might go for white lacey flounce around the neck too...

L
 
Thanks again everyone!! I think I'll probably put it in the 60s category to be safe. Not sure what those sleeves are called, but I've a memory like a sieve so that doesn't surprise me!

Liz
 
<b><i>I swear there was some kind of wierd goth-hippy vibe happening c.1968-1972...</b></i>

Yep, because I was there!!!

What about trumpet sleeves??
 
Well, I'd have to say early 1965 for a very weird reason. When I look at my mother's 21st pictures virtually every girl in the pictures is wearing a version of this dress. Apparently they were all raving about what they were going to wear, and when they all turned up they were all in the same style. Different dresses, but all black knee length dresses with an hourglass waistline and all with sheer sleeves. So there must have been some sort of a trend going on. I haven't seen much of it in the 60s mags though.

The nearest thing to it that I can find in there are some dresses in various issues of Queen Magazine from 1962 and 1963. The 1962 dresses are inclued in a feature on learning how to dance the Madison and are mainly Jaegar and Harrods, but they don't have the high neck or the sleeves. The 1963 pictures are all on debutantes, so they'll be all Harrods and Hardy Aimes sorts of things I guess. Still not the sheer sleeves though, just the dress shape. So I guess these pictures in the magazines must have been an inspiration or the later dress that you have found.

The only really gothic trend I can think of nearest that time was late 1970 - early1971 when all the dark black velvet came in, dark straight flat hair, blood-red lipstick and black eyeshadow, really decadent darkly coloured fabrics, thick black chokers at the neck, scarves worn at the waistline, all of that sort of thing. Ringo Starr's first wife latched onto that style the moment it came in and she didn't let go of it for years. She's my absoloute clothing idol, but I haven't her figure, hair type or skin colour so I can't carry it off. *sob!*

Anyway, this dress is deffinately too pretty for the gothic look that came in, but it could easily have been in the black-dress-fashion-parade at mum's party (LOL! Poor mum) and is very much in the shape worn in 1965/1966 films when they have a "party" scene.

The bodice reminds me of the dresses that were inspired by the "topless dress" scandal but I can't remember which magazines those dresses were in so I don't know where to start looking it up. :( But that was mid sixties too as it came along with Gernreich's 1964 "topless bathing suit".

I'd really say though that it's a mid sixties, upper middle class style for the 18-24 age bracket.

I think it's *divine*.
 
It's out of my range of familiarity - I was too young and my mother and aunts were too old at that time - but it's a wonderful dress.

Hollis
 
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