Dating a vintage tuxedo

[Joyride Vintage]

I have acquired a fabulous tuxedo jacket, pants and suspender set.

Two inside labels read:
Custom Tailors Union Label, Organized 1883 # 5887689
Fargo Tailoring Skoog and Ryostrom, made in North Dakota

1883-1915 is the time period I have found in my research that the union was active.

Attached are some photos, I am hoping to identify the decade this set is from, as well as a resale value.

Any help is appreciated!

 

[Circa Vintage Clothing]

Hello, I can't help with dating your tailcoat except to say that it looks like someone has cut off the tails! If you show a close up of the hem it will be clearer.

Also for dating it might help if you include pics of the suspenders and trousers, as they're likely to be from the same era.

I find tailcoats hard to pin down on dates as the style is a classic one, so it's great that you've found information on the labels. I always date them as the most recent possible date, to be safe - clues I interpret include the fabric and construction, for example, is the sleeve lining stripey cotton or silk?

You probably know that the VFG can't offer values but I find that prices vary a great deal and would expect that due to the trimming of the tails, this item would probably be worth less than it would with the tails. However, a close up of the hem will help here: I haven't seen one of this style but it's possible it was a bespoke item made for someone looking for an unusual style.

N

 

[jauntyrooster]

Hello - great find! I too have been a bit perplexed about the look of those tails and I also second what Nicole said above about tailcoats being hard to date without having in hand. I went ahead and forwarded this to a friend who I consider to be an "Enclyopedia of Menswear" to get his input. He replied that the he believes the tails to be original and he felt they were in keeping with the time period of 1910 - 1913. Nicole is an expert seamstress and I think it would be prudent to upload those hem pics for verification from her that she doesn't see anything concerning about the hem of the tails. If they check out as original, it will, as alluded to, help preserve the value of your item.

Best of luck!

 

[Joyride Vintage]

Thanks ladies! Thanks for taking the time to respond and Maureen, for passing it along to your expert friend. I have inspected the tails closely and don't see any reason to think they are not original or 'cut off', they are very well finished all over and through my own research now have found them to be in line with Maureen's friends dating of around 1910-1913. The Black Tie guide (online) was most helpful in providing accurate information that helped me date the tailcoat by it's details. If anyone else out there needs good menswear history info, I highly recommend checking there.

All the Best,

Kiova

 

[jauntyrooster]

Alan from blacktieguide is amazing and, you are right, it is a great resource. Glad you were able to get the info you needed and best of luck with your suit.

 

[poppysvintageclothing]

It certainly is an interesting piece, I know when I first saw it, the back reminded me more of a frock coat but the front definitely had the look of a regular tail coat.

Thank you for sharing it with us, Kiova and thanks, Maureen for letting us know about this black tie guide too.

 

[Pinkcoke]

Did the Black Tie Guide suggest why the tails were shaped like that?

 

[jauntyrooster]

Near as I can tell, these tails are referred to as "shadbelly" meaning they don't have a strongly curved tail but rather fall ALMOST straight from the waistseam and form close to a right angle at the bottom edge. The alternate is "swallowtail" tails which have rounded tails that curve to the back of knees. The shadbelly was mostly replaced by the swallowtail.

Today the two terms seem to be used interchangeably (and incorrectly) so it hard to even "Google" and find proper examples of the terms being used correctly. This is all information I have gleaned from my reference books which delve more deeply into early menswear fashions.

 

[Pinkcoke]

Thanks Maureen, was it just fashion changing, or was there a practical reason for the style?

 

[jauntyrooster]

Purely speculation on my part but I do believe that tails sprung from needs related to horseback riding. From there, my speculation is that as what was considered acceptable attire evolved, I would think the shape of the tails also evolved with some thoughts toward fashion combined both necessity and accceptability.

 

[Joyride Vintage]

The black tie guide didn't go into the shape of the tails. It was the three single buttons down front that were are not functional, and the way the front waist of the coat slants upward toward the tails instead of running horizontal to the waist. These were the details specific to 1910 - 1913 that were most helpful in dating it. I do agree that the tails are wider and blunter at the bottom then I visualize them being in my mind, but I did see several pictures of these coats in the period that had the same shaped tails, so perhaps it was a short lived fad.