Dating help with vtg Bakelite / celluloid rose ring

[Caleb Phillips]

Hello! I found this beautiful rose ring and I’m trying to figure out when it’s from. It has plastic Bakelite feel to but I thought maybe it could also be celluloid? What do y’all think? Thanks in advance

 

[denisebrain]

Giving this a bump for you Caleb. Any thoughts from our jewelry people?

 

[dollsntrolls]

Celluloid and Bakelite are on opposite ends of the plastic spectrum. There were other plastics commonly used for costume jewelry. Celluloid is very light, can be made transparent and feels like toy-weight. Beautiful pieces can be made from celluloid, it is manipulated easily and can appear very delicate - can be extruded or carved. If this feels incredibly light for the size, it may very well be celluloid or a similar compound. Bakelite has some weight to it. When run under hot water or rubbed to get heat friction, it will smell of formaldehyde. I automatically am ruling out bakelite based on the way the two colors present. The red looks to be an enamel or otherwise applied pigment. The white is much more common in celluloid or other lighter plastics. I don't know if I've seen white in Bakelite! However, uncovered layers of patina with a professional and a dremel (not an option on this piece), extremely vivid colors have come to life. It may be Galaith, which is sometimes called "French Bakelite" - and if you do the hot water test, Galaith smells like hot milk, or milky black tea. A good Bakelite test, besides the smell test (my gold standard) is using simichrome, or a silver polish. On most colors of Bakelite, the simichrome would turn up a yellowing from removing the patina. Black and red ofter do not work. Also, I do not recommend running any plastic under hot water unless you are quite sure it is Bakelite. Other types of plastic may bubble or grey, and not resolve back to the original. Unless this is Galaith, there is a good chance it is a celluloid or celluloid adjacent. FYI, most of the terms were marketed by the manufacturer, and likely vary by country of origin. And, with Galaith often referred to as "French Bakelite" this gets further confused.

The ring is lovely. Celluloid is highly flammable.

 

[Distantdetails]

Sadie has just given us a perfect explanation/education.
Go, Sadie, Go!!!!

 

[dollsntrolls]

Sadie has just given us a perfect explanation/education.
Go, Sadie, Go!!!!

My pleasure! I'm a plastic jewelry nerd and collector. And, my partner collects and play vintage instruments and has told me about the Django Reinhart caravan fire likely being caused by celluloid pics used at the time to mimic tortoise shell. We have a few of each and they do not see sunlight for fears!

 

[Distantdetails]

Do u ever use 409 and a q-tip? That often works, but sometimes not. So I got simichrome to try. I don’t do very well with the friction test—maybe my nose is not so good.
And speaking of pics, my husband got some Bakelite finger slides, and he loves them! They fit just right.

thanks again!
Janine

 

[dollsntrolls]

Christopher has a special white Bakelite bar for steel guitar - ordered from a well-known maker and steel player in UK, and he has a a red one from the 40s or 50s, there's a chunk of steel, like a bullet, encased in heavy duty plastic. I kind of love that he's as excited about bakelite as I am!

 

[dollsntrolls]

Also, I have used 409 and other real silver polishers, I keep simichrome around, although I rarely use it - because it is the pudding proof needed when selling bakelite. Mister Clean Magic Eraser will yield the same result, but it is much more abrasive and not recommended.

 

[plousia]

I recently read that you can use baking soda for testing Bakelite. It seems to work; I wet a cotton swab, dip it in baking soda, and rub the piece. It turns faintly yellow if it's Bakelite, apparently. I don't like using harsh chemicals so I haven't bought 409 or simichrome for testing.

Does anyone here know about that test and has tried it? Thoughts?

 

[dollsntrolls]

I recently read that you can use baking soda for testing Bakelite. It seems to work; I wet a cotton swab, dip it in baking soda, and rub the piece. It turns faintly yellow if it's Bakelite, apparently. I don't like using harsh chemicals so I haven't bought 409 or simichrome for testing.

Does anyone here know about that test and has tried it? Thoughts?

The concern with anything granular is the abrasion may scratch more than needed. Baking Soda, or anything sand-like, will roughen up the patina, and then you wipe with a cotton ball, and you have the years of dust, sweat and tears on the cotton ball. Yellow if Bakelite. If too abrasive, you will also have an uneven color scheme.

If you don't like chemicals, just get used to the friction test - it uses nothing but your own elbow grease and odor detecting nose.

 

[vivavintageclothing]

I have only used baking soda plus water on a q-tip to test suspected black Bakelite, for which Simichrome does not work, as Sadie mentioned above. Based on the few times I have tried it, it does work: faint yellow stain on q-tip, similar to Simichrome, but not as dark yellow. The baking soda paste does not seem require a lot of rubbing to get a result. So it might be OK to use, if you are VERY careful?

Personally, I also generally prefer/use the "smell test", by rubbing the piece pretty hard with my thumb. However, when testing a huge pile of Bakelite bangles a while back, there was a bit of a painful problem, LOL!

 

[plousia]

Oh dear! A vintage injury it's good to know someone can confirm the baking soda test. I do test the reverse side of items when there is one. I do the friction test as well but it seems more subjective, I'm never quite sure if what I'm smelling is the "formaldehyde" smell you're supposed to smell??

 

[dollsntrolls]

Once you get a strong whiff of formaldehyde, your burnt nose hairs are not likely to forget. My silly swing dance friends and I like to force each other to smell our arms after a good dance. We all get giddy with that bakelite smell!