Dating wool coat with silver Persian lamb trim

I'm hoping for help dating this cranberry wool coat. The shoulders are padded, inside the lining. I'm stumped by the only label. Thanks

 

Hi Robin, Very pretty coat. That label looks like the Coat and Suit Industry National Recovery Board label which was used from the 30s through the early 60s so it alone is not a good indication to determine date.
The shape of the coat, the boxy shoulders with shoulder pads, and the inverted pleat in back is characteristic of the 40s however the 3/4 length sleeves are characteristic of the 60s.
Can you please show a photo of the lining and does it feel like silk, rayon, or satin?

 

Like Caryn, I feel this coat is very '40s but the "bracelet length" sleeves are throwing me off - it's possible they were an update during the late '50s to early '60s.

The lining will help date it but I'm confident this is from the '40s, the heavily padded shoulder line is very distinctive.

 

Thank you both! The lining is silk, I'm pretty sure. Here are pics:

 

Thank you very much.

The lining fabric and color is also characteristic of the 40s. Everything except for the length of those sleeves screams 40s to me. Even the cuff trim and style of the sleeve itself as well as the collar looks 40s to me.

I don't really think it's an update. I think for whatever reason it was made that way. Maybe a custom request from the original wearer. I don't know if the cuffs are sewn back but if not they could have been intended to offer the option of wearing turned up to show the Persian lamb trim or turned down only showing the wool side with maybe a line of the Persian lamb peeking out along the seam line of the cuff.

 

Thank you Caryn! The cuffs are sewn (tacked) back, and backed in the same satin as the lining.

 

Is you model quite tall? If so, both the body length and sleeve length may have been intended for a shorter woman. I ask because I can see her knees, and usually, but certainly not always, coat lengths were a bit longer than this. If worn by a more petite woman, would the sleeves be bracelet length?

 

Thanks! My model is 5'7"

 

well, not so very tall. But perhaps still intended for a shorter woman.

 

The matching silk inside the sewn back cuffs further indicates the sleeve style and length to be original.

If the coat were made for a petite woman I would expect the distance across the shoulders to be more narrow.

Tough to figure it out on this one for sure but all the features other than the sleeve length indicates 40s.

I think another possibility might be that the original wearer may have had or purchased a pair of fancy gloves to match and had the sleeves cut to the length that would allow her gloves to show.

 

Good point about the sleeves Hollis - 5ft 7 is very tall for a '40s woman. The average in the UK and Aus was only 5ft 2 at that time, perhaps taller in America but I think you're right in that the sleeves would have been longer on a lady of the right height.

Robin, how long are the sleeves? My model is quite short (as am I) so I'd get an idea of how long they would be on her.

 

Thanks, the sleeves are 19" long (measuring from the shoulder) and 12" long (measuring from the pit)

 

Thanks Robin,

19 inches is almost a full length sleeve on my model Becky - this coat has a 19 inch length sleeve, you can see it sits just a little short than it should. Becky is about 5ft 2.

 

Very pretty coat Nicole. From the looks of it though I think the distance from shoulder to shoulder on your coat is smaller than on Robin's coat.

As I was mentioning before the distance from shoulder to shoulder also makes a difference. Shorter people generally have smaller frames overall; their arms are shorter and the distance between their shoulders is less than a taller person.

14" to 15.5" from shoulder to shoulder is about the right size across the shoulders and 21" sleeves are about full length on a 5'2" woman who is evenly proportioned. If the shoulders are too wide across they fall over and drop into the length of the sleeve a bit.

16" to 17.5" from shoulder to shoulder is about the right size across the shoulders and 24" sleeves are about full length on a 5'7" woman who is evenly proportioned. If too small the edges of the coat's shoulders sit on top of the shoulders somewhere rather than at the edge of the shoulders and can pull from the length of the sleeves making them seem a bit shorter.

The coat looks like it fits Robin's model well across the shoulders even with a little extra room which in part is what makes me think this coat was intended for someone of similar height. What do those shoulders measure across Robin?

 

Thanks, the coat is too large for me (5'3"), and seemed to fit the model well. The shoulders measure 17.5"

 

It looks totally 40s to me, and is a very nice coat. Wouldn't it be reasonable to suppose it was custom tailored, and wouldn't it then also be reasonable to suppose the woman in question could have been a tad stout and quite short?

 

I do think the coat dates to the 40s based on the information and photos provided. I think why the sleeves are the length they are is more of a guess.

If the original wearer was unevenly proportioned she could have had shorter arms but broad shoulders.

Another guess might be that this was made for a teenager who was not done growing in height, her shoulders were developed, but her arms were not full length yet.

For whatever reason though I think this would have been made to match the customer's specifications in the 40's.

 

I agree Jen - I am indeed, short and stout and require a coat with a broad shoulder and short arm.

The '40s coats all have broad shoulders, as it was the fashion of the time. Padding creates most of the bulk of course but if you measure similar sizes from other eras you'll still find that the '40s ones beat them in shoulder width.

 

The sleeves look unusually short to me as well. However, I am reminded of the 1942 film 'Palm Beach Story' where Claudette Colbert is introduced to the concept of 'bracelet length' sleeves when her rich companion offers to buy her a bracelet to accent her sleeve length:

I know this is a suit and not a coat... but I think this is the era that 'bracelet length' sleeves are introduced, so it could be a coat version of the suit jacket sleeve length.

 

Very nice comparison Jonathan.

I interpret the sleeve of the original coat posted as well as the coat shown in the film as being a 3/4 length sleeve as opposed to a bracelet length sleeve which is a bit longer.

A 3/4 length sleeve hits about the middle of the forearm. If you take your hand to measure 1 part down will get you to the middle of the upper arm, two parts down will get you to your elbow, and three parts down will get you to the center of your forearm.

Bracelet length is short enough to show bracelets or a watch but is not much shorter than that and does not expose as much of the forearm.