Dyeing rayon crepe with colour change (or chemically bleached marks?)

[Pinkcoke]

So...I got this dress thinking I could dye it navy, or black if that didn't cover the colour difference. Having now read how hard it is to dye rayon after it's been woven, due to the instability when wet. I'm looking at some options. P.S. The beads are silver lined, I don't know what material the 'silver' is but have been informed it might react with dye if it were real. Anyone know what this typically is?
The colour change is in some normal and abnormal areas - across the top of the shoulders, at the back of the waist and skirt in fine spray like large areas, and on the inside seams in liquid like drops. I wondered if this was perfume or something chemical that was not visible when it was applied, or does colour change always appear like this on vintage rayon regardless?
A) Cold dye for bleach damage repair as per Dylon's website recommendations, which suggest making a paste and painting the lighter areas first, then dying overall. However, the name is deceptive, as you have to add tap hot water to the mix, ergo it must be lukewarm. Although you don't have to stir it as much as the 'hot' water (hand or machine) dyes. Incidentally on all packets Dylon state viscose should dye to the full shade. Is the problem with earlier rayon that it is not made with the viscose method? Is there a way to find out what type of rayon you have?
B) Using pre-dye mix, which sounds essentially like colour run remover, to remove the colour from the garment before re-dying. This sounds like it would work, except that there is two, or more, stages where the rayon has to get wet, and so more chance of tearing....
C) this is my own invention...using permanent colour art pens (Promarkers) to adjust the lighter areas closer to the original colour. These have been good fixers for me. A small test on an inside selvedge shows they would change the bleached colour. But there's no going back with these as I presumably could not try the dye remover later.
D) LOTS of beading like the neckline, extended over the shoulders...not sure what I could do about the area on the waist or back of the skirt though.
E) just take a pattern, make another. Annoying, because the colour and fit is great for me, but perhaps the only guarantee of success...

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

Melanie,

That is quite the project, and I like reading about all of your ideas. Interesting about the color pens.

My comment is just to say that I have never had any luck washing rayon crepe. Once it gets wet, it shrinks, puckers, changes drape, etc.

Have you previously washed rayon crepe with success? I know there are various types of crepe, so perhaps someone has had the success that I did not.

It is a lovely dress.

 

[Pinkcoke]

Thanks Barbara,
I am willing to go to crazy lengths for a piece I can wear if I can do it myself.
No I haven't washed rayon crepe before, I think I washed some waffle textured rayon though, that was fine in the bath (it was just dusty). But I just don't get earlier vintage here. I have last weekend just scored a huge box of earlier garments though, and there is lots of what I assume is rayon crepe in there, so I must learn. They all appear to be in good condition, so I don't understand how people cared for them so well previously, and yet we cannot today!
I could be calling this rayon crepe incorrectly though. I've never had any labelled or done a burn test. This would probably be a good example to define the fiber on.

 

[Circa Vintage Clothing]

Lovely frock Melanie, I can see why you'd like to restore it.

I think you could be right about the chemical reaction being as a result of perfume - perhaps that technique where you spray it in the air and step through, which could explain the pattern. Although I've found that discolouration on early rayons can be random or mysterious.

The fatal flaw in the early rayons is the weakness when wet, and so they changed the formula in the '50s - that's why the early rayons are so beautiful and sought after, because they sacrificed some of the lovely feel and drape for durability.

In your photos, it looks like crepe up until the close up where it looks like something else so if I were you I'd get an accurate diagnosis of the weave first: you can dye early rayons if you do it gently. It's the crepe weave that links to shrink. This is true for silk crepes too, although silk is more durable so you can stretch it back into shape, whereas rayon crepe will likely rip. I haven't tested polyester crepes but they're dry clean only so I suspect a similar fate may befall them too if you launder.

If you do choose to dye this dress I recommend that you remove the beadwork and reapply afterwards as the dye will affect the beads. The glass ones may retain a shadow of it but if there are any plastics they will probably take it more.

Good luck!

 

[Vinclothes]

I agree about how tricky it is to wash rayons. But I have had reasonable results from using fabric marking pens. The dress is wonderful and would be so becoming on. Best wishes on success.
Marian

 

[Midge]

It looks like the kind of fabric on my lovely late 40s/early 50s cusper rayon dress... it's not a crepe weave, but it definitely doesn't like to get wet, as it shrinks too when wet, and kind of gets hard. I learned just from doing a bit of spot cleaning - really scary, I was so afraid to ruin it. The only way to clean it is dry cleaning (by a good dry cleaner who knows what to do), so I do not wear it a lot. The fabric though has the most gorgeous, fluid feel to it! Slightly heavier and shimmery in comparison to rayon crepe. Here's my dress for comparison:

 

[Pinkcoke]

Karin it does look like the same fabric! I am testing different shades of pen at the moment on the selvedges inside. If I get a result that's reasonable I'll probably go for this.

 

[pastperfect2]

I have tried dying 40s crepe several times. Also tried just washing. And color stripping. It will shrink, regardless of the water temp and no matter how you dry it. It will shrink a lot. Dye remover will not get you an even color field. It's just not strong enough to strip out commercial dye. Over dying will still be uneven, because the base fabric is uneven.

I think your idea of fabric pens has the best potential for success. I want to hear how it comes out!

 

[Pinkcoke]

Thank you Hollis, although that's both terrible and great news at the same time :D It's good to hear of your experiences and not have to wreck something to find out for myself.
The marker pen on the selvedge looks good right now. Interestingly it is not purple that gave the best result. It is a medium blue - so in essence I am replacing the colour that has been bleached out from whatever chemical affected the rayon dye set. Blue over pink gives purple...it has potential. I just need a day of good daylight to avoid going over the edges too much, as this darkens the normal colour. But overall I think it will look better than it does currently. I did find that applying it from the back gave a softer edge by letting it bleed through.
The only issue I can forsee with this solution is if it worked well enough to wear would it be dry cleanable afterwards. Anyone know how marker pen and dry cleaning fluids react?! Because they are not proper fabric dye pens (they don't come in as many shades as these).

 

[pastperfect2]

Maybe if you markered a 4" square sample piece of rayon, your dry-cleaner could do a test for you?

 

[furwise]

I'm of no help regarding dying or washing but I have been following because I would love to see the results and possibly learn what has worked for others.
I was looking at another dress that looked very similar to this. The neckline treatment looked just the same in design and it had the heading too. The fabric was described to be rayon faille.

 

[cmpollack]

What a lovely dress, Melanie-definitely worthy of some TLC!

Your fabric pen idea sounds most viable. Aside from the possibility of the rayon reacting badly to water, I'd think the beading was at risk too.

Not analogous at all as far as period/fabric/restoration needs, but I remember my distress when the silver sequins in a Mexican circle skirt soaked totally clear. I didn't really have a choice as the skirt had a ton of rust-colored staining on it, but it was quite the tradeoff! In your case, the risk to the lovely ornamentation isn't worth it, IMO.

Good luck and look forward to seeing your "after" pictures!

 

[bubblegumvintage]

So...I got this dress thinking I could dye it navy, or black if that didn't cover the colour difference. Having now read how hard it is to dye rayon after it's been woven, due to the instability when wet. I'm looking at some options. P.S. The beads are silver lined, I don't know what material the 'silver' is but have been informed it might react with dye if it were real. Anyone know what this typically is?
The colour change is in some normal and abnormal areas - across the top of the shoulders, at the back of the waist and skirt in fine spray like large areas, and on the inside seams in liquid like drops. I wondered if this was perfume or something chemical that was not visible when it was applied, or does colour change always appear like this on vintage rayon regardless?
A) Cold dye for bleach damage repair as per Dylon's website recommendations, which suggest making a paste and painting the lighter areas first, then dying overall. However, the name is deceptive, as you have to add tap hot water to the mix, ergo it must be lukewarm. Although you don't have to stir it as much as the 'hot' water (hand or machine) dyes. Incidentally on all packets Dylon state viscose should dye to the full shade. Is the problem with earlier rayon that it is not made with the viscose method? Is there a way to find out what type of rayon you have?
B) Using pre-dye mix, which sounds essentially like colour run remover, to remove the colour from the garment before re-dying. This sounds like it would work, except that there is two, or more, stages where the rayon has to get wet, and so more chance of tearing....
C) this is my own invention...using permanent colour art pens (Promarkers) to adjust the lighter areas closer to the original colour. These have been good fixers for me. A small test on an inside selvedge shows they would change the bleached colour. But there's no going back with these as I presumably could not try the dye remover later.
D) LOTS of beading like the neckline, extended over the shoulders...not sure what I could do about the area on the waist or back of the skirt though.
E) just take a pattern, make another. Annoying, because the colour and fit is great for me, but perhaps the only guarantee of success...
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Hi Melanie (Pinkcoke) Did you end up using markers to fix the colour variation on this dress? How did it turn out? Curious to know

 

[yumyumvintage]

I would try the fabric pen but it may be too dark or too light and drive you nuts......

 

[Better Dresses Vintage]

Following along to see what happens. Worst case scenario, color in the faded spots and then wear it only in dark, moody bars and cabarets.