Help with dating a dress (dirndl style?)

T

Tamzzyn

Registered Guest
Hi all :) I would really like some help dating this lovely novelty print dress. The buttons are metal and it's made of a rough cotton material. It's labeled a size 40 but it is very small and fits well but snug on my size 0 mannequin! I'm not sure if it's supposed to have a shirt under it so I added a photo with one (a modern dirndl shirt from my own dirndl - I lived in Germany before and couldn't leave without buying my own ). Thanks all

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Hi,

A typical Bavarian styled Beerhall dress.

I can't see it being earlier then the 1980s.

From memory I have only ever seen them worn with a shirt/chemise so yours goes well.
 
Avantbo said:
Hi,

A typical Bavarian styled Beerhall dress.

I can't see it being earlier then the 1980s.

From memory I have only ever seen them worn with a shirt/chemise so yours goes well.
Click to expand...

What is it about it that makes you think it can't be older than the 80s? During my research the majority of novelty print dresses like this are 80s or older (although the 80s and 70s tend to be more floral prints), Thanks :)
 
Tamzzyn said:
What is it about it that makes you think it can't be older than the 80s? During my research the majority of novelty print dresses like this are 80s or older (although the 80s and 70s tend to be more floral prints), Thanks :)
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Hi,

There is no reason why it couldn't be older but as a youth doing the rounds of beerhalls and getting plastered I saw a fair amount of these dresses.

Why 80s and say not 70s? hmmm, 7os always reminds me of earth colors, brown, black, orange, green, purple, solid colours.

The buttons are kind of dare I say, Levi, that is not to say in times past they didn't have metal buttons but I would have thought if the dress was earlier then 80s they would have been cloth buttons and print floral or just plain, solid.
 
Dirndls can be hard to date because they're based on traditional styles, and some go more with fashion, and some less. The metal buttons seem to imitate old Austrian coins - I think I can see a double eagle? Nothing wrong with that, you do see that kind being used in "trachten" fashion as we call that style in German.

A small Austrian or German size 40 would point at it being quite a bit older than 1980s or 70s. Could you measure it - bust (at the top) and waist, and the skirt length from waist to hem? The length of the skirt could be an indication (unless it's been shortened), and as for the size, I'll be happy to check it against my vintage sewing patterns from Germany and Switzerland - of course those can vary a bit, but it may give an indication.

And yes, it would have been worn with something similar to your modern dirndl blouse :). Though modern ones are sometimes cropped, just to below the bust - which I think is a relatively recent invention, before that they would have been normal length blouses.
 
The little ric rac trim is giving me a 60s feel, it's a guess at best though and could have been added on later.
 
Midge said:
Dirndls can be hard to date because they're based on traditional styles, and some go more with fashion, and some less. The metal buttons seem to imitate old Austrian coins - I think I can see a double eagle? Nothing wrong with that, you do see that kind being used in "trachten" fashion as we call that style in German.

A small Austrian or German size 40 would point at it being quite a bit older than 1980s or 70s. Could you measure it - bust (at the top) and waist, and the skirt length from waist to hem? The length of the skirt could be an indication (unless it's been shortened), and as for the size, I'll be happy to check it against my vintage sewing patterns from Germany and Switzerland - of course those can vary a bit, but it may give an indication.

And yes, it would have been worn with something similar to your modern dirndl blouse :). Though modern ones are sometimes cropped, just to below the bust - which I think is a relatively recent invention, before that they would have been normal length blouses.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much :) That would be wonderful!

Bust (armpit to armpit): 38cm / 15 inches
Waist: 33cm / 12.5 inches
Skirt length: 69cm / 27 inches
Total Length: 106cm / 42 inches
 
Wow... this is even tinier than I thought! 1950s Burda size 40 body measurements are larger than this. Nowhere near.
I have 1930s pattern magazines from Austria and from Germany - unfortunately neither features a measuring chart. The Austrian ones already use sizes 40, 42 etc. - 40 in general seems to be the smallest ladies' size. The German magazines feature sizes going 0, I, II, III... I see the modern sizing numbers only show up after WWII in German patterns. I don't know how it was with mass produced clothing, and when sizing changed etc. Switzerland was at least by the late 30s also using 40, 42 etc. (I have these magazines purely because of the patterns and fashion illustrations, I might add :) - the political content in most of them is zero, and some I got from a friend who saved them from being thrown away).
I've had a 1940s dress with a label from Vienna that was size 40 - I have no measurements because I donated it to a museum instead of selling it. Comparing the measurements of your dress though with my measurements and knowing my dress was a pretty good fit, yours is somewhat smaller. Of course there can be differences in sizes between different manufacturers, I'm sure it was the same then as now. No idea about the rickrack trim, but I can see that print being 30s or 40s. These are dirndls from a 30s sewing pattern magazine from Austria:
dirndl.jpg

None quite like yours, but also with brightly coloured fabrics with small prints all over, and big buttons - on the lone on the far left in the illustration it actually looks like it could be metal buttons similar to yours. And I think the length looks also good when I look at the measurements of your dirndl, on someone smaller than me (1m69), it would probably hit at around where these illustrations suggest.

So my guess for your dirndl is 1930s and Austrian... maybe early 40s at most.
 
Thank you so much Karin :) That is such wonderful information :) When I was trying to research the dress I kept coming around to the idea that it could be from the 30s/early 40s based on the print and also the feel of the dress. Plus the measurements are similar to some 30s and early 40s pieces I have that are a size 40. Thanks for looking into the for me and providing your opinion and information - I'm really grateful :)
 
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