Is this Voluminous-Sleeved Piece Victorian? 1920s? 30s?

H

helenheven

Registered Guest
Can anyone help to date this piece? The Leg 'O Mutton sleeves and general construction make me think it might be Victorian, but maybe it's as late as 1930s... It makes me think of ice skating! It is a heavy wool with felt facing in front, and in addition to the many hook & eye fasteners are grommets or eyelets that could be used for lacing up the front like a corset! Any help would be most appreciated - I am stumped with this one! Thanks
 
I love it!!! I would think early edwardian......

I want one for myself but it would have to be alot bigger to fit me.

-Chris
 
Those very large sleeves are typical of the mid 1890s, they do come back briefly in about 1906, but they are not so tight in the lower arm and full at the shoulder like they are with this top, so I am quite sure its 1896-97ish. It looks like the sort of thing a woman would wear who was part of a curling team or ice hockey team. I am pretty sure it was intended for sportswear. There are several people here who would be interested in it, so do let us know when and where you list it.
 
Thank you very much for your informed response - it does seem like some type of sportswear to me as well. I have been searching for anything comparable to get some idea of it's value, but it must be quite rare because I have found nothing. Do you know of anywhere I might find similar items? I was thinking of it on Sunday but am not sure I'll make it in time. I care about my things & would love this piece to end up with someone who will truly appreciate it, so I will let you know when I list it. Thanks again so much!
 
I have seen women's team photographs from the 1890s and 1900s with the players wearing fashionable sweatery outfits like this for curling and ice hockey, so that is why I mentioned it.
 
Hi again, I have been searching for any period photos of women's ice hockey or curling but have not had any success - the costumes are much less fashionable - do you remember where you might have seen the pictures you mentioned? I noticed that you're in Canada - I'm from Toronto myself - could it have been some place up there?
 
I can't remember exactly where but it was probably in books about winter sports, or Canadian sports or something like that. I remember I was surprised there was such a thing as women's hockey team that early, although I think it was more like c. 1905ish, the curling team photo was older.

Did you get that top in Toronto?
 
What an interesting piece. I think it might be what is known as a Gibson Girl sports sweater from the 1890's. There was a cream sports sweater with gigot sleeves c1890's from The Met's exhibition " “American Woman: Fashioning a National Identity."

http://tinyurl.com/2cjmj8j

and in detail on this page;

http://tinyurl.com/34s82n7

It would be great if you could show us some close-up details. You've got a really special costume.
 
Hello Vertugarde! Yes, of course! Gibson Girl! Thank you so much for sharing your considerable knowledge & experience. Once again, you have solved the mystery - suddenly the striped overlay piece that lays across the shoulders in the back makes sense - like those iconic sailor-inspired Gibson Girl bodices! I had no idea just how special this piece was - as always, I bought it for my own wear because I loved it. Now I am considering selling it but am unsure how to proceed - aside from not having a mannequin to properly display it, of more concern is getting it to the attention of collectors who will recognize it for what it is & appreciate it. I was going to list it on ebay but have no idea of it's value and would rather keep it than give it away. Please tell me what details you would like to see and I will take some photos and post them.
 
Hello helenheven. I'm happy to help. It would be good if you can get another second opinion - perhaps send detail photos to a costume curator of a museum? Phone ahead first. Depends where you are located.

Is there a shaping "dart" on one of the sleeves or is that a repair? I'm not a knitter. Please, can you show close-ups of the fastening at the neck, a section of where you think the hooks might have been, what looks like a scalloped edge and an inside seam to see the finishing? Also, what size is it?

The sweater may not necessarily have been specific to a winter sport. Here are some images from Canadian history showing women ice hockey players;

http://www.birthplaceofhockey.com/hockeyists/women/pic-amherst-1899.html#top
http://www.birthplaceofhockey.com/hockeyists/women/pic-liverpoolchamps-1913.html#top

You might eventually find a similar garment online. Try looking at the history of US liberal arts colleges like Vassar.
 
Hello again, I am trying to photograph this piece - to that end I have it on a "form" on a hanger, so I'm afraid won't be able to post an interior photo for a while, but here are some photos showing some of the areas you asked about. The top photo shows the double metal buttons at the collar and you can see the rows of grommets, behind which are the hook & eye fasteners. There are about 16 hook & eyes and 2 rows of 30 grommets down the front, which I assume could be laced up. The scalloped edge you mentioned that's peeking out at the bottom is the edge of the felt facing. There is a piece on one side that is about 4" wide that I assume folds across the front - a modesty panel? The other side has a matching scalloped felt facing that's only about 2" wide. The "dart" you asked about is actually a seam - it is identical to the patterns I saw online explaining the construction of the gigot sleeve. The seam is on a sort of diagonal in the full part of the sleeve, probably due to the bias cut, then it continues straight down the length of the narrow part of the sleeve. This sweater fits me, so it's size would be like an XS to a Small. Still searching for any similar items to get an idea of value - thanks for the women's hockey links, that's the type I found and the curling team uniforms are similar. I will try to look for the 1890s women's college teams as you suggested. Thanks again!
 
Oh my- :o
I can't offer anything of assistance, but this has got to be one of the loveliest pieces of clothing I've seen in a long time! Oh, what I wouldn't give to wear this baby all winter long! Thanks for sharing
 
Here, as promised is a photo of the inside of this piece. In examining it, it seems the hooks & eyes were not original, but they were definitely a "period" addition, because the thread looks very, very old. I have also included a photo of what it looks like laced up, which is what I believe was the original intention. I used a thin piece of leather thong - does anyone know what the original would have been made from, and what color? Other than the incredible Gibson Girl Sweater from the Met's collection, I still have been unable to find anything remotely close. As to dating this piece, is 1895 approximately accurate, so it is therefore properly a Victorian piece? Thanks again for all your help and kind comments!
 
Thanks for your responses - the lacing is definitely on the front - there is a sailor-inspired, cape-like overlay that drapes across the shoulders and hangs down the back. There have been posts expressing interest in this piece and while it isn't currently offered for sale, I have decided to sell it. I want to be respectful of the rules of this forum - but I believe it is okay to say that I will be listing it for sale via online auction tomorrow.
 
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