Labels on Fashion Clothing

Do you also sell vintage clothing?

 

http://kb.rubylane.com/category.php?catID=14
Here is the fees. I will let Carol answer but unless something very recently changed this is not true at all Catseye.
I have been at RL 3 different times over the years but am exclusive now. Once I had 6 other venues at once.
I have always paid what is in the link and sell on all the lanes except artisan one. I also do not sometimes list 7 items in a week?
Sandy
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oops. sorry Carol.

 

Before I continue addressing the individual posts, let me share the following with you. (This is a result of this discussion and has been added to the TOU on Ruby Lane and the FAQ updated.)

Ruby Lane considers it important to have the trust and respect of the online community. Our being a niche site with specific expectations regarding listing quality has for shoppers always distinguished our site from others. The following points suggest clothing items with original labels offer better value for the buyer/collector:

1. Revivalist styles complicate identifications. It can sometimes be very difficult to tell authentic period pieces from items made at a later time.

2. In conjunction with fabrics and/or styling, original clothing labels help collectors determine correct approximate age.

3. Clothing labels can identify who designed an item, where it was made, or tell how to properly care for it.

4. Collectors in general tend to prefer marked examples if given the choice between identical items presented with and without labels.

5. Regardless of the era during which items were made, vintage fashions that retain original maker's marks (labels) sell for higher prices than those that are missing original labeling.

We understand honest, knowledgeable dealers in vintage clothing may occasionally be unable to list items in their shops because of certain site requirements. For instance, Vintage Clothing & Accessory items priced under $10 USD may not be listed. But, upon review we still feel it is the best method to help ensure accurate, high quality listings if we continue to require illustration of original maker's labels for post-1945 vintage clothing that was originally sold labeled. This practice also increases buyer confidence, which helps encourage sales both now and in the future.

As noted in our FAQ Knowledge Base Article Number: 164, added in May of 2007, if a clothing article does not have any label of any kind because it is a tailored or home-sewn item more than 20 years in age, the item can be listed. The reason no label(s) can be pictured should be mentioned in the description.

While there is no change to our guidelines, we have updated the following
guidelines text for clarification, which now reads as follows:

"Listings for post-1945 manufactured clothing, shoes or accessories must
include clearly readable images of the manufacturer's original labels.
Pre-1945 items are exempt from this requirement."

 

I am not a member of VFG and a general dealer also so limited in sharing examples Carol.
I do believe 2007 and now are years apart on the desirability and hence availability of true good vintage clothing.
Time does take its toll on fabric more so than other categories except possibly paper.
I am a guest on this site but as a dealer see this:
"It can sometimes be very difficult to tell authentic period pieces from items made at a later time."

as important to all antiques and really do not understand the stance on vintage clothing alone. I could also not sell one piece of vintage clothing on RL or RP and still be exclusive. Many of the dealers if not most on this forum sell all or mostly clothing and accessories so it really is their topic. I would love to join the VFG but as stated am a general dealer so cannot.

 

I do understand where folks are coming from and I can't say I disagree with some of what has been posted. But, Ruby Lane makes the guideline decisions, so right or wrong, dealers of vintage fashion and accessories must follow them. Yes, I know there are those who do not, that is what the flag button is for.

 

this is true of everything, not just vintage clothing. glassware, cookie jars, jewelry, etc., etc. the vast majority of the time any experienced vintage seller will have no problem making the distinction between a garment in the style of an earlier era and the original.

they can, yes. but they are certainly not the end-all, be-all of determining age, and shouldn't be treated as though they are.

same as a maker's mark identifies who designed any other kind of item. where an item was made and how to care for it have only been included on separate tags since the 60s, and many younger than that do not say where the item was made or have care instructions.

with many garments, it simply doesn't matter. a beautiful, ornately beaded 1950s jacket (or sweater, or dress, or ...) will command the same price, with or without the presence of a label. (unless of course it's by an important, sought-after designer. then one with the label would command a higher price than the one with an ' attributed by' and the label is missing.)

sorry, carol, that just is not true. again, unless, we're talking about an important, sought-after designer piece. otherwise, a label maybe cute, charming, and be one factor in helping to authenticate era, but that's all it is. ruby lane is giving far too much importance to the presence of a label than is warranted.

 

Remember, I didn't write it. Just shared it. I will be back tomorrow afternoon. I will have more time to spend here digesting and answering your questions tomorrow. This group is really active ... and good! Carol

 

I believe you do. I have learned several things from this thread.
1. I can list homemade that is over 20 years on RL.
2. and your no. 2 a about listing 7 items.

I did know about the Google listings.
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2. My question is not whether or not it costs extra to be featured. My question is why are non-exclusive sellers charged the same fees as exclusive sellers when:

I certainly cannot answer this. RubyLane is implementing many new features as recently as today. Mainly with social networking but possibly .........Carol started this thread and added this so...open dialogue is always good IMHO.
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Before I continue addressing the individual posts, let me share the following with you. (This is a result of this discussion and has been added to the TOU on Ruby Lane and the FAQ updated.)

 

There are collectors of vintage fashion who are looking for items that can be authenticated by a label. However, there are also collectors e.g. fashion designers, textile designers, costume designers, museums and buyers who are looking for items that have other desirability factors;
Fabric
Pattern/print
Construction
Original details that reflect the period
Socially interesting
It seems therefore that the Ruby Lane "label" policy excludes many potential buyers.
From a fashion historian's point of view the 1945 cut-off date for manufactured fashion items is curious. The post-war period (WW2) is particularly significant from the point of view of social history and fashion. Austerity measures continued for several years until the early 1950's. Clothes were altered and handed down. Labels disappeared. These items are still of interest to collectors.
I'll also echo Joan's comment - "the vast majority of the time any experienced vintage seller will have no problem making the distinction between a garment in the style of an earlier era and the original."

 

I’m glad you came back, Carol. However, I am even more confused than ever by your responses.

See, the problem with companies engaging in social media marketing programs is that many don’t want to address the issues their efforts bring to light. Social marketing is not a happy rainbow pony land full of free marketing opportunities. It’s the place where you publicly interact with your target market. If you want them to “like” you, you have to show them why they should. And most importantly, you have to be prepared when you kick the hornets’ nest.

“Oh I’m in marketing and take care of social media marketing” doesn’t cut it. When you engage in social media, you are the company — no matter what your formal job title or description may be. Your original mission here was to promote Ruby Lane, not to solicit input on the importance of labels from the highly experienced vintage veterans here. Unless we all agreed with you --- then I’m sure you would have found a way to leverage that.

Flagging? Well I suppose it’s great when it works. But first of all, it leaves you relying on your customers and other vendors to do your job of policing your marketplace. Ruby Lane positions itself as a premiere marketplace for vetted goods from quality dealers but depends on tattling and seemingly random application of the rules.

But as I mentioned in my earlier post, flagging doesn’t seem to do much good in my experience anyway. As I mentioned, newer items abound in the designer vintage segment on Ruby Lane. I’d really hate to think that the attractive key words, higher dollar value, and prestige of having these particular items listed on your site have made Ruby Lane turn a blind eye to flagging them.

I mean, I can certainly understand how having been the venue where an Hermes Birkin bag recently sold for over $10,000 would provide Ruby Lane with a certain level of cachet amongst online vintage selling venues. Why worry about a niggling little detail like how that bag carried an M in a square blind stamp which makes its production year 2009?

That Birkin was an item that depicted all the original maker’s marks and labels — but one doesn’t even have to know anything about blind stamps, date codes, serial numbers, issue dates and collections to see what kind of ridiculous violations are in the designer categories. Hermes scarves that the sellers date from years 1994, 1997 and 1995 directly in their listings and titles. A Louis Vuitton bag that celebrates the monogram centennial of 1896 — which of course is 1996 and described as such in the listing. And those are just what I saw in a simple one minute search of two designer key words today.

Yet Ruby Lane seems to be too busy aiming their lasers directly on something much more important — telling dealers who’ve run ethical and respected businesses for decades that they can’t sell a 1950s dress because it lacks a label. Or maybe they can? Who knows? Ruby Lane’s rules quoted here and your evasive answers to that particular issue have left my brain mired in a bottomless pit of sticky kerfuffle.

 

Great points Leigh!

I don't sell at RL either, but I find the label-focus curious: as others have pointed out, labels are just one part of the authentication puzzle. In my 30 plus years of buying and selling vintage clothing I find that what sells is a good style in a nice fabric, good condition and the right size for the customer. There is a market for designer fashion but most of us are playing in the other end of the pool and the designer fashion end has it's own issues - like fakes. It's much easier to fake a Chanel label and sew it into a suit than it is to fake an ordinary 1950s dress which will be made with older fabrics, some of which aren't even made anymore, and out-dated and superior construction techniques.

Like many professionals, I've seen some very suspicious labels in vintage and know well that I can not rely on them: labels are so easy to fake, so easy to remove and replace. Thankfully the garment will have many other clues to it's originality.

The message I'm getting from Ruby Lane is that they're not comfortable selling vintage clothing - that there is an "icky" factor not present with other second hand goods, and so different and very precise rules need to be applied.

A marketplace should be egalitarian, with simple rules applied across the board. If it's okay to sell jewellery, cookie jars and depression glass without labels, why is not okay to sell clothing this way?

 

This is an excellent point. Many items retain a union label but not a makers label. The union labels directly date an item to a specific time period. If the worry is indeed fraud and mis-dating, then garments with a union label should be allowed as they are proof of garment age.

 

CosmicGirl, . "Your original mission here was to promote Ruby Lane, not to solicit input on the importance of labels from the highly experienced vintage veterans here." (Anyone who participates on the other forums where I show up knows this is not a true statement. Further, how do you promote a venue if the venue isn't giving folks what they want. Kind of counter-productive if the goal is to attract sellers of vintage fashion and accessories, don't you think?) I asked a question and 'kicked the hornets nest' for a reason. The 'clothing and fashion guidelines' had come under review because RL received several questions from shop owners similar to the ones discussed in this thread. As a result RL decided to review the guidelines (once again) to determine if changes should be made. I posed the question here to get 'feedback' from the 'experts' in order to take back to RL for consideration. I believe I have said this before in this forum, I personally would love to see swimsuits allowed on Ruby Lane and some of the guidelines 'relaxed' but it didn't go that way. So, what was given to me is what I shared with you above and is now on the TOU page.

 

And what did you tell them per chance??

Carol, I think by now most of us are coming to the slow realization that you are not Ruby Lane's official representative. I think you are getting so many comments thrown directly at you because you chose the screen name "Ruby Lane". This makes it sound like you ARE Ruby Lane. Hence we naturally all want to discuss our issues about Ruby Lane. If you're not able to explain these things or even understand what we're asking, I can't see that this situation is going to be defused any time soon. The frustration comes from evasion of our questions and blanket answers that do not clearly address the questions being asked. If you don't know the answer, I would really love for you to just come out and say, I'm sorry but I don't know, instead of using tactics of evasion to just move around the question without directly answering it. Then for you to go back and get a clear answer from Ruby Lane and return with it here only when you yourself have an answer that you feel is honest and answers the questions being asked.

I think all we want is clear, honest answers to our legitimate questions. If you can't offer us that, then it looks very unlikely that we will trust Ruby Lane enough to bring, or keep, our businesses there.

Also, does Ruby Lane have a vintage expert on staff?? If so, may we have her/his name?

 

These discussions have become hostile, not constructive, and we are closing our account on Vintage Fashion Guild. We will no longer be participating on VFG.