dating fine instarsia knitted sweater vest / tank top

Pinkcoke

Pinkcoke

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I just knew, when I held this that it was early, but how early? I'm confident of no later than early 1960's, but really I'm thinking 30s or 40s, it's a very fine knit, 22 stitches to the inch. What do you call this technique of pattern insertion? It looks like fairisle on the outside, but inside there no strands that carry over, it is all worked into the stitches.
Do you think this is womens or mens? or was...? the bust is 36" before stretch. Both dress forms are 38". There is no shaping, just different stitches. Because of the bottom half it stretches over the man's shape, and clings on the woman's, though you don't get the gaping arms on the man's so I'm leaning that way. I'm wondering if it was originally a jumper with sleeves and a higher neck that has later been altered, as the thread used for the decorative scallop stitching is a brighter green than the thread used for the overlocking underneath, and there is a bit too much selvedge in the shoulders which looks as though it has possibly been cut, a long time ago (the edges of it are fuzzy now). The overlocking has relatively long loops, neat but not very tight. The V side is vertical, the straight side slants one loop to the left. I wish I could find that overlocking guide now, I'm sure that would give me some indication of the age of the overlocking.
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I initially had an idea how this could have been made and asked my mom. It's not what I thought it was (she's knitting something for me right now in 2 colors, that looks different on the back side than your usual Fair Isle knitting). Anyway, she actually thinks this was knitted by machine, and not by hand... Another though she had that maybe this was originally a sweater with sleeves and some other form of neckline that was altered?

Karin
 
Thanks Karin yes I agree it was probably machine knitted, is that why the stitches don't carry over underneath do you think? I watched a great programme last week called Fabric of Britain which had an episode on knitting. They went to a very old company in Derby I think that still uses the same machines they used to make full body undergarments on from pre-central heating days. They were also an incredibly fine knit.
Any ideas on age?
 
I watched that too :) (I'm addicted to all these BBC documentaries!). And yes to that's why the stitches don't carry over underneath - at least that's what my mom thinks. No idea about age though... I've seen Italian woolen knit underwear from probably the 50s or 60s in the thrift shops in Vienna, very nicely finely knit, all new old stock, probably from the same source as my Italian polyester slip and the ruffly bedjacket. Beautiful stuff, but I got hot even trying a short woolen slip on. With the heating etc. everywhere these days you just don't need that kind of thing anymore under a normal winter dress, so I didn't buy it in the end.

Karin
 
Hi Melanie,

I agree that it's likely an upcycled top, refashioned from a jumper and machine knitted - as to age, my question is about fabric content. If it's pre '60s I'd expect pure wool and '60s or '70s would probably (but not necessarily) be a wool and synthetic mix or pure acrylic.

I have an easy test for wool: just wet a little bit of it. Wet wool has a very distinctive smell, you'll soon know if it's pure or not.
 
Linda, your pic is for thermal underwear - you can still get them, in fact I have several. Modern styles look the same as your pic so they may not be vintage. They're for wearing under your clothes in winter, not necessarily for skiing or outdoor sports. I wear them around the house in winter or under tops. Mine are all black but they come in white and skin tones too. They are shaped so they don't create bulk under your clothes.
 
I've bought them from various Australian department shops - these names probably won't mean anything to you but Dimmeys, Myers and David Jones. I still have a good stash so haven't bought any for about a decade so it's possible that particular style isn't available any more but I certainly bought cream knit spencers just like yours in about 1999-2002. I have a black one like that with a wide scoop neckline, it's a New Zealand brand called "Jockey" and it's nice enough that I wear it as a top with skirts.
 
I shall beg to differ Linda - I can see Melanie's worn over a long sleeved blouse, perhaps with boofy bishop sleeves and button cuffs. The knit is chunkier than yours, which has a fine nylon mix - spencers and thermals tend to be fairly lightweight although I haven't seen all types.

I was born with a built in magnet for finding old fashioned styles of clothing - even if they're rare, I'm drawn to them irresistibly. I agree that Marks and Spencers would be a good source for this sort of product.
 
Not that I'm aware of: I just call it "deep waist ribbing" as it's part of the knit. In more modern times, the ribbing is a separate trim that is added but your Etsy pic above looks like the waist is knitted in one piece with the top portion.

Incidentally, I doubt that set is from the '40s or '50s - from what I can see of the labels, they provide quite a bit of information. If we could see the labels it would help but I suspect they'll be '70s or more recent.
 
Thank you: yes, the wool symbol suggests it's post '64. Does it have anything on the other side or any other labels? I suspect they're from the '70s or '80s, judging by amount of info, and fonts.

I found this that has a date of 1968 for the filing of the trademark but also found an advert from '63 so they were around earlier.

You're not the only one who attributes the style to earlier times: I found one on etsy that was sold as '50s although the label has measurements in cm, which I don't think the UK was using until the '60s or even '70s. In Australia, we tended to follow the British way and introduced centimetres in sizing labels in the late '60s.
 
This set reminds me of Italian woolen slips that I've seen at the Humana second hand shops in Vienna - the same kind of knit so that they would fit quite snugly. Humana must have got into a large stock of NOS Italian undergarments that date ca. from the 60s onwards, as we kept stumbling across all these things with their original cardboard tags in different Humana shops. The knit in this set looks about the same. They also had a pattern similar to this, but a wide ribbed bit at the waist. And just the other day I was looking through a Burda magazine from winter 1970, and there was an ad showing similar short woolen slips. So I would agree this set could be anything - you could of course wear it for skiing, but it looks quite nice and could be worn under other clothing too. For skiing and other outdoor activities you would want these things to fit absolutely snugly and tight to keep the warmth to your body. If they're not snug, air gets inbetween and you start to feel a chill - definitely uncomfortable - I'm speaking from experience here :).

Karin
 
As for Melanie's garment. It's almost definitely machine knit. In fact, never mind almost. It's machine knit. Some collar or turtleneck was cut off, then overstitched (you know, like a blanket stitch to prevent it from unraveling -- not sure of the proper term) and then gussied up by hand with a line of crochet. Nice work.

Linda, that sort of lightweight wool/cotton (or sometimes silk) long underwear (aka "long johns") are readily available -- cheaper models are at Target (I wear them as pajamas, as they don't bunch up around your legs at night the way typical wide-leg pajamas and nightgowns tend to do). Nicer ones you can find in "Yankee" and higher-end outdoorsy catalogs. Here are some nice modern ones:

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/...ong_Underwear/Merino_Wool_Pointelle_Top/37476

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/75209?feat=75211-ppxs&dds=y

Nicole -- Jockey? You mean this old American underwear company: http://www.jockey.com/ourcompany/ourhistory? Or is there also a New Zealand underwear company by the same name? FYI, if it's the U.S. one, and you like their stuff (all my panties are Jockey, and yes, TMI, I realize), there's an outlet shop on the way to my lake house. Just another reason to come visit ; ).
 
Liza, I want to come and see you at your lake house so much! Hopefully one day :sunshine:

I don't know anything about the NZ Jockey except that they're owned by the Aus company "Bonds", which in turn is owned by Pacific Brands - but their Jockey page talks about being established over 150 years ago so I agree that it's likely to be the same one. Of course they don't say where the brand originated. I'm pretty sure we have (US) Jockey products here in Aus too. The only reason I know about them is that I bought those spencers from the brand the ladies in the shop told me it was a NZ company owned by Bonds (which meant I got a discount as they had a sale on Bonds).
 
Circa Vintage said:
Thank you: yes, the wool symbol suggests it's post '64. .
Click to expand...

That's actually the woolmark blend symbol, indicating a blend of 50-99% wool (rather than the woolmark symbol which indicates pure wool). It was introduced in 1971, so that's the earliest those could be.

See our label resource: http://vintagefashionguild.org/label-resource/woolmark/

Agree this thermal set doesn't seem unusual to me, I had a similar set to the one Linda shows in the 90s, with a scoop neck, and some ribbing though maybe not so deep, from Damart. It's awhile since I bought these kind of thermals, so perhaps the ribbed waist isn't so common these days. However a delicate knit 'with designs in' (often called pointelle knit, or just fancy knit) is definitely available - these are from damart:
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And this brand Vedonis, seems to do some ribbing
vedonis-long-sleeve-camisole-uw35-tall.jpg
vedonis-fancy-knit-pure-cotton-pantee-twinpack-tall_1.jpg


Agree completely with Nicole that Melanie's top is not underwear.
 
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