Help! Can you date this old velvet jacket?

[Sarah Hudgins]

Can anyone help me date this bolero jacket? Or come up with a name / style for it? It's really strange. I feel like it's definitely older...somewhere between 1920's-1940's. The batwing / dolman sleeves are really different. I've never seen anything quite like it. Pictures attached. This is my first time posting here. Thanks!

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

That is lovely. It looks to be from the early 1930s. Are you sure it is velvet? It looks like fur, similar to what used to be called "Hudson seal" but which was not really seal it was another less expensive fur.

You might call it a shrug style. Or simply a short Dolman sleeved jacket.

 

[poppysvintageclothing]

I agree with Barbara, it looks more like a fur, can you get in underneath the lining, to see if you can see the skin of the fur. I am wondering if it isn't older than 20s and may be from the early teens.

 

[furwise]

I do think it looks like fur but not hudson seal. Is that an open French hem along the bottom Sarah? Take a look in there if so and if there is skin backing spread the fur side out for me if you can. Brush that fur flat for me so I can see if that fur has still has that wave and show me some well lit photos like you did when doing the close ups if you can. I know that happened because you were doing close ups.

Also can you push the fur or fibers against the grain? What does it feel like when you do that?

 

[poppysvintageclothing]

It reminds me of mole fur, Caryn, will definitely be able to help you out.

 

[Circa Vintage Clothing]

My first thought was '30s too but it does have some 'teens styling with that collar and button detailing. Also I suspect it was longer originally. The way the lining is gathered up around the hem suggests that it flowed outwards. Lovely piece. Can you tell the lining fabric? That might help.

 

[bycinbyhand]

Voting for 30s.

 

[Sarah Hudgins]

That is lovely. It looks to be from the early 1930s. Are you sure it is velvet? It looks like fur, similar to what used to be called "Hudson seal" but which was not really seal it was another less expensive fur.

You might call it a shrug style. Or simply a short Dolman sleeved jacket.

Thank you Barbara! It's definitely velvet, I checked the underside.

 

[Sarah Hudgins]

I agree with Barbara, it looks more like a fur, can you get in underneath the lining, to see if you can see the skin of the fur. I am wondering if it isn't older than 20s and may be from the early teens.

Hi Mary Jane! Thanks! Definitely velvet. I looked at the underside. I know, I was leaning toward teens as well, but the lining is silk, and near pristine. Wouldn't it be shattered by now, if it were Edwardian? So then it makes me think 30s.

 

[Sarah Hudgins]

My first thought was '30s too but it does have some 'teens styling with that collar and button detailing. Also I suspect it was longer originally. The way the lining is gathered up around the hem suggests that it flowed outwards. Lovely piece. Can you tell the lining fabric? That might help.

Hi Nicole! Thanks! The lining is silk. So now I am thinking definitely 30s instead of Edwardian.

 

[Circa Vintage Clothing]

Silk shattering is caused by adding mineral salts to the material, to make it heavier in a time when silk was sold by weight. So not all silks are affected: usually satins and taffetas (which make nice rustling sounds) and even then the better quality silks weren't affected. Lining silks are lighter and weren't affected by these practices and so don't usually shatter. They can be affected by other age and storage related issues though, like dry rot, mildew and mould. I've written some blog pieces on these issues if you'd like to know more.

You're right though: many Edwardian silk linings deteriorate, but so do those from the '30s.

I vote '30s for this lovely piece. Here's a pic of one of my (now sold) opera coats, which has a similar shape

. I still believe that yours was likely shortened.

 

[Sarah Hudgins]

Silk shattering is caused by adding mineral salts to the material, to make it heavier in a time when silk was sold by weight. So not all silks are affected: usually satins and taffetas (which make nice rustling sounds) and even then the better quality silks weren't affected. Lining silks are lighter and weren't affected by these practices and so don't usually shatter. They can be affected by other age and storage related issues though, like dry rot, mildew and mould. I've written some blog pieces on these issues if you'd like to know more.

You're right though: many Edwardian silk linings deteriorate, but so do those from the '30s.

I vote '30s for this lovely piece. Here's a pic of one of my (now sold) opera coats, which has a similar shapeView attachment 77863 . I still believe that yours was likely shortened.

Dang! That's beautiful! Hmmmm I wish I could figure out if it was shortened...the craftsmanship is so beautiful though, so it makes it hard to tell if it's original or not. Yeah the Edwardian pieces I've had, all had kind of messed up lining, that's why I say that. Thank you for your bottomless well of knowledge Nicole!!

 

[furwise]

I still believe that yours was likely shortened.

I have searched and searched and that collar is one that I saw over and over in the early 30s, actually 1930, 31, and I saw kimono jackets/coats too.

I did not see any that were elasticized and I looked A LOT so I would really guess that it was either just elasticized or shortened and elasticized.

Did you check the backing from the bottom? I don't think it would be worth it to check if not but if that bottom were open you might possibly be able to identify whether it was altered from the inside along the hem. Again, if you did not open that area I don't think it would be worth it to even try to figure it out.

 

[Circa Vintage Clothing]

You're welcome Sarah: I wish I hadn't sold that coat, it was special. I do have several '30s velvet opera coats though, sufficient to make most people happy but that one was special.

Have a look at the stitches holding the hem down: it is the same thread as the rest of the stitching? Are the stitches similar in size and style to the rest (eg sleeve cuffs). The thread should be pure cotton if it's original with no synthetic component. If there is, it's post '50s.

 

[Sarah Hudgins]

I have searched and searched and that collar is one that I saw over and over in the early 30s, actually 1930, 31, and I saw kimono jackets/coats too.

I did not see any that were elasticized and I looked A LOT so I would really guess that it was either just elasticized or shortened and elasticized.

Did you check the backing from the bottom? I don't think it would be worth it to check if not but if that bottom were open you might possibly be able to identify whether it was altered from the inside along the hem. Again, if you did not open that area I don't think it would be worth it to even try to figure it out.

No, I haven't opened up the bottom. The way I checked the underside is because some of the lining came loose in the cuff of the sleeve. Nothing is elasticized though. Yes, I was thinking early 30's for sure. Thank you for looking for me!

 

[Sarah Hudgins]

You're welcome Sarah: I wish I hadn't sold that coat, it was special. I do have several '30s velvet opera coats though, sufficient to make most people happy but that one was special.

Have a look at the stitches holding the hem down: it is the same thread as the rest of the stitching? Are the stitches similar in size and style to the rest (eg sleeve cuffs). The thread should be pure cotton if it's original with no synthetic component. If there is, it's post '50s.

Thank you for those clues Nicole! So the stitching and thread is the same. Although, under close inspection, I did find something interesting. I found a remaining single small snap on the outer waist. This makes me think there was another piece that was once attached to it, that did make it longer.

 

[furwise]

Thank you for those clues Nicole! So the stitching and thread is the same. Although, under close inspection, I did find something interesting. I found a remaining single small snap on the outer waist. This makes me think there was another piece that was once attached to it, that did make it longer.

That could be possible but it could also be possible that it was a bit longer, wrapped around the waist and snapped or had a belt that snapped making it fitted.

 

[Rue_de_la_Paix]

If it is dedinitely not fur, then the fabric would be a faux fur, but not a velvet. That long pile fabric was often called simply "plush" and was usually made of silk or rayon (or a blend of the 2). It is really an attractive garment.

 

[Vliys]

It looks retro, cool

 

[bycinbyhand]

Silk shattering is caused by adding mineral salts to the material, to make it heavier in a time when silk was sold by weight. So not all silks are affected: usually satins and taffetas (which make nice rustling sounds) and even then the better quality silks weren't affected. Lining silks are lighter and weren't affected by these practices and so don't usually shatter. They can be affected by other age and storage related issues though, like dry rot, mildew and mould. I've written some blog pieces on these issues if you'd like to know more.

You're right though: many Edwardian silk linings deteriorate, but so do those from the '30s.

I vote '30s for this lovely piece. Here's a pic of one of my (now sold) opera coats, which has a similar shapeView attachment 77863 . I still believe that yours was likely shortened.

Lord that is lovely, Nicole