Help me date this dress please.

Better Dresses Vintage

Better Dresses Vintage

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Hi. Just the usual pangs of dating self-doubt. This comes from the same theater as the 1916 black silk and the lounge outfit named after a shipwreck ; ).

Appears to be rayon. Has a very long nylon CC back zip that may or may not be original. I can't find evidence of shoulder pads, but it looks like it could accommodate a whopper of a pair. The construction of the bodice is interesting. Sort of princess seams from shoulders to waist AND dolman sleeves that create side seams. No labels of any kind.

It is clipped to Lola, and perhaps I've distorted the true line. Not sure the waist is actually supposed to be at the natural waist, as shown. It's a 17" bodice. As you can see, it has a long pointy collar and a "matching" peplum. The waist is 31" at the seam. Hips are 42". Skirt is low-calf length (Lola is 6'2" tall, so would be longer on an average woman).

Thanks! Liza

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Haha - I had to read this a few times - at first I thought Lola was the original owner and I was thinking 'wow - that's a tall woman! especially back then' ;)
 
I am going to offer a very different opinion. I think it may be late 1980's - C. 1987 or 1988 - if the zipper is original. What is the interior construction like and the seams? There was a very retro '80's does '40's look about that time. My 1988 wedding dress has a peplum. I remember mid-calf skirts and dresses. I found an ad for a 1987 Nancy Johnson suit in "A Century in Vogue- a Century of American Fashion in Advertising" that looks totally '40's. I'll scan it later if I have a chance.
 
It occurred to me that it might have been made up in the late 80s from a late 40s pattern (the nylon zip would support that possibility) and if it came from a theatre company I could see it being made up for a play, but I am sticking with the 1948-50 styling. If it were 1988 I would expect a fuller peplum, shoulder pads, and if the skirt is narrow it would be shorter. I only recall full skirts being that long in the late 1980s, unless they had pleated inserts or massive kickpleat, and the sleeves are too loose - 80s would have had tight cuffs, not open sleeves like that. I also don't recall seeing that collar in the late 80s - round, peter pan, standing, collarless... lots of options, but a deep notched collar like that is very 40s in style.
 
Please excuse the quality of this scan. It shows two ads from 1987 - the Nancy Johnson suit has a deep notched collar -the other outfit has open sleeves. I remember most of my long skirts during this period being fuller but there's something about Liza Jane's dress that reminds me of the late '80's - especially if it may have had shoulder pads and is meant to look late '40's. BTW - my wedding dress is a Nancy Johson - with a full peplum and open sleeves.

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I don't have a picture of me from my 1988 wedding scanned - will have to do that.
 
Oh my. Very interesting, but can't say I'm any closer to knowing how to list it! ; ) Those ads are really nice, thanks Linn. Can we see your wedding dress!?

As for this one (which is oddly depressing to me, don't know why), the seams are not pinked or finished (the collar and hem ARE nicely hemmed with no raw edges). Here's a photo. Not the greatest, I know. I can take some better ones if you'd like.

For the record, there is no evidence that these folks made any of their own costumes. Their sewing machine looked pretty dusty. And the guy in charge told me that everything came from outside sources. So if this is a remake, which is certainly possible, it's the only one they had in their large collection.

I'm thinking maybe the zipper is a replacement. It feels "newer" than the rest of it. Kind of stiff/modern. I think the covered button at the neck is a replacement - the back is plastic and the fabric doesn't match exactly. Another reason I suspect it's older is that the interior seems well worn and washed (see that bit of fraying at the lower right? It's all over the raw seams). It's not from cleaning. I don't think they ever cleaned anything. It's dry-cleaned now, without issue.

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Update. Just did a burn test (which I avoid as it never fails to nauseate me) and if the charts are correct, and silk is self-extinguishing but rayon is not, then this is silk. Stinks like burning hair. Sends up a grayish white smoke. Extinguishes itself when you remove the flame. What's at the end (ash) is crunchy black and turns to powder if you rub it.
 
Well, you asked:

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It's hard to see the details of the dress which is actually ecru and has cutwork at the hem. I still have it (and the vintage beaded bag I am carrying) and will shoot it on my manni - or maybe I'll be brave and try it on - LOL. The flowers and the ribbons were light coral not pink.

This dress - purchased in 1987 and worn in 1988 was rayon - and looks nothing like your dress except I think it may have had princess seams - but a slightly dropped waist below the natural waist. I do not still have this dress, but I still have the Etruscan Revival Victorian brooch.
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I have a number of '40's dresses - all the seams are pinked. I don't have many '80's pieces but I do have the wedding dress and the seams on it are open like this but overlocked - so that's no help! I just looked at another '80's dress I have and the seams are like yours but that might not mean anything... I like your dress - it doesn't make me sad! Let's see what others think. I still think it may be '80's.
 
This is a tricky dress - I remember those big pointy collars coming back briefly in about '89-90, I bought a tailored white blouse with one at that time. The collar was also seen in the '60s, I've seen a number of blouses with that style. The other era I associate it with is the late '30s-mid '40s when you occasionally (but not often) see it. I don't think your dress is this old due to the construction.

It would be easier to date in person but I think you're right: by clipping the dress, you've distorted the silhouette so that's throwing us off a bit. I can see where Linn sees late '80s, that was also the last time paisley was in fashion, but I think yours is earlier. The zipper is challenging me, because the way it's set in looks fairly modern, but if it's a replacement, it's likely that it was sewn in differently. Are the seams raw? If so, I vote fairly modern.

It's tricky: home made dresses are harder to date.
 
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Linn you look beautiful!

I am going to put this dress on ME and send a photo. I'm not as skinny as Lola, and definitely shorter. Maybe it will help. I suspect that the actual waist is slightly dropped. I'm average height (5'5-1/2"). In fact... here's a photo my 4-year-old took yesterday of Lola and me. I'm the stumpier one with a head ; ).
 
Thank you, Liza Jane!

You are very cute!

I forgot to mention that the floral piece I am wearing in my hair is called a Haku Lei - very traditional wedding attire in Hawaii. It was a gift from my sister - my "matron of honor" - (my "maid of honor" in my first wedding.) Lucky for me she lives nearby.

I can't wait to see the picture of you in the dress. If it looks wonderful on you, which I suspect it will, you may have a hard time parting with it. I know this from experience and I only sell vintage jewelry! :)
 
Oh, right! Completely forgot. Too many irons in the fire. I will do that as soon as I can find a photographer. By which I mean, kids are at Sunday school and tripod is attached to a telescope in hubby's office ; )... So later on today!
 
Took some photos. Don't think they're going to help, unfortunately, as the dress is nearly as big on me as it is on Lola, but I'm much shorter (almost 5'6"). The sleeves are quite long (but I do have somewhat T-Rexish arms).

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Hi,

Of course, without actually touching the fabric, I could be wrong....but I am going with 1980s on this one. I wore some 80s does 40's clothing in my "real job' back then, and was I especially fond of Nancy Johnson dresses and suits. (Thanks Linn for posting that). Some of the "40s" and "50s" revival dresses made then (in the 80s) has those same fuller cut sleeves, which even then I thought wrong for the style, but that was how some designers made them anyway. And it may indeed have had shoulder pads... I don't know, but the dress just looks more revival than true late 40s to me.
 
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