Help with this gown? Last UPDATE
- Thread starter lkranieri
- Start date
lkranieri
VFG Member
Thank you all for the help with and kind words about the Trunk That Keeps On Giving. By the way, I am happy to give away the trunk if anyone is near northern NJ. It is wood, painted black (with a few floral appliques that I think come off easily) and flat on top, so it makes a great coffee table and storage piece (but it is a bit musty smelling).
I will shortly steam the gold gown and redress the mannequin in it, so I can ask for whatever observations you may have about it. There are 2-3 other gowns in there, too, including this one, which seems to be the newest one. It has an organdy overskirt and a metal side zipper. 50s? 60? Thanks.<be>
I will shortly steam the gold gown and redress the mannequin in it, so I can ask for whatever observations you may have about it. There are 2-3 other gowns in there, too, including this one, which seems to be the newest one. It has an organdy overskirt and a metal side zipper. 50s? 60? Thanks.<be>
Jonathan
VFG Member
It looks late 50s to me with the slightly dipped neckline and ruffled sleeves but it is definately taking inspiration from the mid 19th century. It might have been for some Civil war centennial event, but it could just as easily have been worn as a confirmation/bridesmaid/cotillion/prom dress. In fact I could see that they might have kept it for possible costume use after the event.
Also, just to clarify -- baleen was referred to as whalebone in the 19th century, they never actually used whale bones in corsets.
Also, just to clarify -- baleen was referred to as whalebone in the 19th century, they never actually used whale bones in corsets.
Wow, what great finds! The first dress would have confuse me too - I'd have gone for 1860s at a first look too.
As for the gold one - I would tentively put it at around 1900? I'm no expert though, I only have a load of books on fashion history and love going to any kind of fashion history exhibition/museum ;).
Karin
As for the gold one - I would tentively put it at around 1900? I'm no expert though, I only have a load of books on fashion history and love going to any kind of fashion history exhibition/museum ;).
Karin
lkranieri
VFG Member
Thank you all again for the information about the trunk contents and for the enthusiastic comments about them. I won't weary you with any more photos after these last two posts, but I would like to ask some construction questions on this additional trunk gown, which I will assume is also a costume.
The new neighbors were laughing out loud at my nude mannequin in the back yard, so I hurriedly took the photos of this last gown. It was getting dusky, too, so everything looked gray.
This gown is an ivory color and is very small, so I had to put it on a child-size mannequin. It has an...ummm...organdy?-type and ribbon ca. 6" high piece at the top of the bodice front, under all the other parts, but it is shredding. Then there is the part with the stays and hooks and eyes (what is that part called?), then the pleated bodice fabric you see here, then the external corset part that needed to be lashed, but I just held it together with a safety pin threaded through the opposite loops. The outer corset originates at the side seams, so it only covers the front of the bodice. The inside (see third photo) has a petersham belt and the stays. It also has perspiration shields--and that is my first question. At what time period were those shields first used?
The collar has a stiffness from something inside and I am not sure if it was intended to stand up, but the external corset, the look of puffed sleeves (created by two "wings") near the shoulder, and the standup collar give it a medieval look, so perhaps that was the theatrical intent.
The last photo is of the inside of the skirt, where you may be able to see that the lining is sewn together with the skirt material (see side seam on left). Perhaps I am not remembering that correctly, but I thought the lining in the oldest dresses was free to move on the inside and was only attached at the waist. Were the skirt and lining both ever sewn together at the side seams? There is also an additional bit of material between the pleated trim at teh hem and the lining. It has horizontal lines and I have no idea what it is, or what its purpose is. Stiffener perhaps?
In the next/last post I will post a couple of photos in response to questions about the gold gown--and the trunk in case anyone is interested in it.
Many thanks.
The new neighbors were laughing out loud at my nude mannequin in the back yard, so I hurriedly took the photos of this last gown. It was getting dusky, too, so everything looked gray.
This gown is an ivory color and is very small, so I had to put it on a child-size mannequin. It has an...ummm...organdy?-type and ribbon ca. 6" high piece at the top of the bodice front, under all the other parts, but it is shredding. Then there is the part with the stays and hooks and eyes (what is that part called?), then the pleated bodice fabric you see here, then the external corset part that needed to be lashed, but I just held it together with a safety pin threaded through the opposite loops. The outer corset originates at the side seams, so it only covers the front of the bodice. The inside (see third photo) has a petersham belt and the stays. It also has perspiration shields--and that is my first question. At what time period were those shields first used?
The collar has a stiffness from something inside and I am not sure if it was intended to stand up, but the external corset, the look of puffed sleeves (created by two "wings") near the shoulder, and the standup collar give it a medieval look, so perhaps that was the theatrical intent.
The last photo is of the inside of the skirt, where you may be able to see that the lining is sewn together with the skirt material (see side seam on left). Perhaps I am not remembering that correctly, but I thought the lining in the oldest dresses was free to move on the inside and was only attached at the waist. Were the skirt and lining both ever sewn together at the side seams? There is also an additional bit of material between the pleated trim at teh hem and the lining. It has horizontal lines and I have no idea what it is, or what its purpose is. Stiffener perhaps?
In the next/last post I will post a couple of photos in response to questions about the gold gown--and the trunk in case anyone is interested in it.
Many thanks.
lkranieri
VFG Member
These are the last photos of the trunk contents and are of the gold gown posted earlier. Re the question about the appliques, this is a closeup of them and I think they are flowers...
This is a slightly better view of the complicated front, but the second photo is a not-very-good shot of what is going on with it. In the first bodice photo here, the stomacher piece with the trim on the top is just tucked into the bodice on the right, as it is unfinished on the right and has no way of fastening there. There is also a piece of the same stomacher material attached on the right side of the bodice (no corresponding piece on the left) and there are no fasteners on that either. It seems to interfere with the stomacher piece, too.
The last photo is the trunk--a giveaway that could make a good storage table, with a good airing and coat of paint.
This is a slightly better view of the complicated front, but the second photo is a not-very-good shot of what is going on with it. In the first bodice photo here, the stomacher piece with the trim on the top is just tucked into the bodice on the right, as it is unfinished on the right and has no way of fastening there. There is also a piece of the same stomacher material attached on the right side of the bodice (no corresponding piece on the left) and there are no fasteners on that either. It seems to interfere with the stomacher piece, too.
The last photo is the trunk--a giveaway that could make a good storage table, with a good airing and coat of paint.
pastperfect2
Alumni +
I think both the gold dress and the ivory dress are early 1892s - to 1893 or so? Possibly 1897 - 1900, but I rather think the earlier period. They are both fashionable evening or dinner gowns rather than costumes. I agree the white dress is 1950s.
I have occasionally found bodice bits that were meant to be actually pinned in place and that may be what you have with the gold gown.
That's quite a trunk of clothing!
Hollis
I have occasionally found bodice bits that were meant to be actually pinned in place and that may be what you have with the gold gown.
That's quite a trunk of clothing!
Hollis
vertugarde
Alumni
These are really good pictures Lynne. Thank you. I think the gold dress and the ivory dress are in the 'Reformed' or 'Rational' dress style which began around the 1850's in America. It was a move away from restricting the female body. That might explain some of the unstructured workings particularly with the gold dress bodice. I think the turn of the century date is about right. The gold dress may be missing a sash or belt or cummerbund.
The Medieval look to the collar on the ivory bodice might also be reflecting the Aesthetic Style which was related to the Reform Movement.
The added pieces of fabric on the lining of the skirt of the ivory dress are probably due to a tear or damage and this indicates to me along with the border pleated trim if there is still a question over whether this collection (except for the white dress) is costume from the 1920's-1930's that the dress is original.
I can't see the detail on the bodice on the full length picture of the ivory dress but it looks really good. In any event you can get a museum to evaluate.
The Medieval look to the collar on the ivory bodice might also be reflecting the Aesthetic Style which was related to the Reform Movement.
The added pieces of fabric on the lining of the skirt of the ivory dress are probably due to a tear or damage and this indicates to me along with the border pleated trim if there is still a question over whether this collection (except for the white dress) is costume from the 1920's-1930's that the dress is original.
I can't see the detail on the bodice on the full length picture of the ivory dress but it looks really good. In any event you can get a museum to evaluate.
awaywiffairies
Registered Guest
Love the trunk and if I was lucky enough to own it, I'd leave it as it is, all shabby chic tho with a good airing! Shame I live in the UK, darn!!! :powwows: Still love the wasp/bee work, so intricate and sweet. Thanks for sharing the dresses & all the informative threads.
Sarah
Sarah